nswers.  God ends the book by pointing at creation, not by explaining his way through all his questions.  Our relationship with God can't be dictated by the answers we get to our questions.  The questions aren't bad, but odds are, we won't get real answers to them.  So instead of making up reasons and explaining away every mystery we should admire that we are here, that God loves us and that he created us.  Sometimes we suffer.  Sometimes we are blessed.

We have a long history of pointing the finger and blaming when something goes wrong.  We learn in Job, that sometimes things just happen and there is no blame.  Life cannot be reduced to our theological understandings and formulas.  Sometimes things just happen.  For this reason, we all find ourselves on the same street as neighbours.  None of us can explain why anything good or bad happens to ourselves and anyone else.  We our neighbours on a street where good and bad stuff happen all day, and sometimes it happens for no reason.  When we realize we are on the same street, we give up the need to explain the misfortune or blessing of others.

May we be like Job.  Even without answers we learn to trust God.  Even without explanations we learn that the earth keeps spinning.  We want justice, God wants justice and yet we live in the uncertain paradox of justice not happening instantly.  May we learn to admire and rest in the uneasy knowledge that God continues to move and redeem the world, even while we sleep.

Below you’ll find a quick survey of all the tangled ideas that have attached themselves to this issue as well as a handful of quotes, thoughts and videos [that we may or may not agree with] that have helped us process our thoughts.

Finally, if you’d like full manuscripts of the teaching on this topic, or would like to continue talking about it in person, those options are both available.

“What I believe is that the character, the very heart, of biblical faith is not to reach resolution and not to gain closure, but to live without resolution . . . and to be okay with that.”
- Richard Rohr

When Job asked you the question
You responded who are you
To challenge your creator
Well if that one part is true
It makes you sound defensive
Like you had not thought it through
Enough to have an answer
Or you might have bit off more than you could chew.
-David Bazan

"What God is criticizing here is every theology that presumes to pigeonhole the divine action in history and gives the illusory impression of knowing it in advance."
- Gustavo Gutierrez

"The revelation of God's plan, when received with good judgment, will show Job that the doctrine of retribution is not the key to understanding the universe; this doctrine can give rise only to a commonplace relationship of self interest with God and others.  The reason for believing "for nothing" -- the theme set at the beginning of the book--is the free and gratuitous initiative taken by divine love."
- Gustavo Gutierrez

"Not everything that exists was made to be directly useful to human beings; therefore, they may not judge everything from their point of view.  The world of nature expresses the freedom and delight of God in creating.  It refuses to be limited to the narrow confines of the cause-effect relationship."
- Gustavo Gutierrez

"The point is this: if God seems to be in no hurry to make the problem of evil go away, maybe we shouldn't be, either.  Maybe our compulsion to wash God's hands for him is a service he doesn't appreciate.  Maybe--all theodicies and nearly all theologians to the contrary--evil is where we meet God.  Maybe he isn't bothered by showing up dirty for his dates with creation.  Maybe--just maybe --if we ever solved the problem, we'd have talked ourselves out of a lover....God neither apologizes nor explains, and he certainly makes no effort to solve the problem of evil for them.  He just goes on arranging rendezvous after disreputable rendezvous, no matter how little anyone thing of his choice of trysting places."
- Robert Capo

"And what is love if it is not the indulgence of the ultimate risk of giving one's self to another over whom we have no control?"
- Robert Capon

"Christian theologians who address themselves to the problem of evil should treat it as a mystery to be entered, not as a puzzle to be solved."
-Robert Capon

You and I are indeed free to cry out, to lament, to scream—if need be. The God to whom we call does not ignore his dearly beloved creature. It is just that God refuses to be confined within to a system of predictable rewards and punishments. Jesus reminds us that “he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the righteous and on the unrighteous.” (Mt 5: 45)
- Gustavo Gutierrez

If there is nothing in your life to cry about, if there is nothing in your life to yell about, you must be out of touch. We must all feel and know the immense pain of humanity. The free space that God leads us into is to be able to feel the full spectrum, from great exaltation and joy, to the pain of mourning and dying and suffering. Then we are no longer isolated, but a true member of the universal Body of Christ.
-Richard Rohr

The secularized mind is terrorized by mysteries. Thus it makes lists, labels people, assigns roles, and solves problems. But a solved life is a reduced life. These tightly buttoned-up people never take great faith risks or make convincing love talk. They deny or ignore the mysteries and diminish human existence to what can be managed, controlled, and fixed. We live in a cult of experts who explain and solve. The vast technological apparatus around us gives the impression that there is a tool for everything if we can only afford it.
-Eugene Peterson

I’ve been fighting this all my life. I’ve looked at the patterns of my life and when I surrender to that simplistic, either-or, all or nothing thinking, it’s made me make my worse mistakes. It’s allowed me to hurt people unnecessarily without even knowing I was hurting them. It has allowed me to not be compassionate, to not be patient, to not be merciful, to not understand situations, to read them wrong. The dualistic mind (there is only right and wrong and nothing else in between) operates by reading everything by what I like and by what I prefer. It reads everything egocentric. You don’t even realize you are egocentric, you just think you are defending some great truth. You’re usually not. You are defending what you are comfortable with and you call that objective truth.
-Richard Rohr

Thr following is from Is Telling the truth more important that Selling the Truth by Donald Miller

If you were to put a group of modern, leading evangelicals in a room and ask them to write a book about God and the church, formalizing a message to the world, I doubt you’d end up with anything like the Bible.

You probably wouldn’t tell the story of Bill Clinton having an affair, Benny Hinn faking healings and getting a divorce or Ted Haggard talking macho and homophobic and then secretly sleeping with men and using drugs. I doubt you’d talk about powerful religious figures being involved in incest, either. But that’s exactly the sort of stories we find in scripture. And not only that, but these are principal characters through which Christ lineage and God’s redemptive message are passed down through.

Write that book today and we’d likely get some specific theological statements, mapped out like math, some song lyrics, some stories that make God and his followers look good, and after each chapter, actionable steps leading to a more vibrant life in which you are happy and financially stable. In other words, you’d get modern Mormonism.

What I love about the Bible is it’s honesty. This is not a book in which authors tried to hide anything. If somebody got drunk and slept with their daughter, it’s in there. If the king of Israel had a man killed and slept with his wife, it’s in there. If somebody doubted God’s love, it’s right there in the book.

So why don’t Christian books read anything like the Bible? Can we handle the truth?

Part of the problem is ours is a religion of image. When the authors of scripture sat down to write, they weren’t writing for critics, and they didn’t care whether or not people approved, they were attempting to capture truth. And they believed telling the truth was more important than selling the truth.

So my question is, do we trust truth? And would it matter if your church shrunk because you presented the truth (in maturity and objectivity)? Would people stop reading your blog if you were honest, like the writers of scripture? And at what point do we call a white-washed style of literature lies?

But another important question is can you handle the truth? If you knew about your pastors thought life, would you still go to church? If others knew about your darkest sins, would they stay away from you? How did a book filled with such brutal honesty create an image-sensitive culture?

What do you think would happen if we stopped “spinning” the gospel, and started telling the truth? My guess is, the church would shrink, and what you’d be left with is a small core that would grow through love, acceptance and honest commitment to each other

Article: Is Telling the truth more important that Selling the Truth by Donald Miller

This month's series is about discovering our neighbours, and recognizing who else is on our street.  Normally we see the world split up into 6 billion different streets, each marked appropriately: Right and wrong; right and left; Christian and unbeliever; heterosexual and homosexual; leader and follower; wicked and righteous. But what if instead of separating us, these categories affirm that we really all live on the same block? Once we realize we are neighbours and not strangers, it is a lot easier to leave our homes at night, we aren't so worried anymore.

God hasn't reduced our humanity and lives to a simple decision of picking one side of the fence or the other, but it seems like every chance we get we want this to be the case.  Rain falls on both sides of the fence.

This same struggle is played out in the book of Job.  An innocent man is under great distress as his life falls apart all around him.  His friends come out from the woodwork to try and help him understand the calamity he is in.  Through these conversations, all sorts of interesting things are discovered. Journeying with Job, his friends are unable to deal with the seeming contradiction:  How can he be innocent and yet still all these terrible things happen to him?  So they try and re-write his story for him.  They are convinced by the end of the story that maybe Job isnt't their neighbour after all.  Maybe he lives on a different street, and that street is full of wicked people that do wicked things.  Its inconceivable to see good happening to one neighbour and bad happening to another, so their only known option is to re-write the story to proclaim that they were never neighbours.

God, however, eventually steps in and sets the record straight. "You're all living on the same street!" he says. "Humanity is in this struggle together.  Stop trying to put your neighbours house up for sale and embrace whatever comes, whatever is. Leave the city planning to me."

The central issue for the local church around the topic and ideas connected to same sex relationships and activity is not “What are we going to do about homosexuality?” but “How must we treat and engage people regardless of sexuality, disagreement, offence or hurt?”

On our shift as the local church, we must make intentional movement away from dividing and distancing ourselves from individuals and groups and towards living in the tension of conviction, unanswered questions and hope. This movement is fueled by a limitless supply of grace for all (regardless of sexual orientation or behaviour) and a ferocious disdain for sin (understanding that sin is an anti-reaction to God’s order and intent which inevitably leads to ruin). Assuming the posture of holding the scriptures tightly in hand while our arms are stretched out wide and welcoming is the body language we must adopt and champion if we are to continue God’s mission in our relationships and neighbourhoods. Our job, remember, is to tell God’s story, to love Him and others as we are loved by Him. In turn, we create the opportunity for God to do his work: To transform lives as he delicately, yet thoroughly, snuffs out sin.

Of the reading we did for this series, these two books stand out as they play both sides of the argument very well. Check them out if you want to dig deeper. “Slaves, Women and Homosexuals: Exploring the Hermeneutics of Cultural Analysis” by William J. Webb and "Christianity, Homosexuality and Social Tolerance" by John Boswell . Both are available through ATIC.

Below you’ll find a quick survey of all the tangled ideas that have attached themselves to this issue as well as a handful of quotes [that we may or may not agree with] that have helped us process our thoughts. In addition, there are also 3 video clips that were a big help.

Finally, if you’d like full manuscripts of the teaching on this topic, or would like to continue talking about it in person, those options are both available.

Things to Consider…

A PLACE TO START:

*If God is good, then what he says is good as well

*What does it mean to be ‘on mission’ with God?

*New Territory: We’re facing into old questions in new clothes

*Spirit/Essence of the text: What is at the heart of God’s intention for humanity?

*Cultural vs. Trans-cultural: in which category does homosexuality fit?

*A new kind of inclusivity: How do we go about being God’s Truth Tellers?

*The Holy Spirit is the wild card: He helps, empowers, directs and transforms


NEW & OLD QUESTIONS RAISED

*Can I disagree with God and still be a God follower?

*Can I still live in the way of Jesus, doubting, uncertain, ticked, at a loss for words?

*Can we see why the Bible is often seen as a hate filled book?

*Not about how they got there or how to get them to stop being gay (orientation), but how do we faithfully handle what is?


POINTS OF VEW

*Marital Heterosexuality Only

Homosexuality is not an acceptable lifestyle for Christians, whether between consenting adults on a casual basis or within monogamous, equal-partner relationships. The only acceptable means of heterosexual expression is within a covenant relationship of marriage between two adults

*Covenant and Equal Partner Homosexuality

Homosexuality is an acceptable lifestyle for Christians provided the partners are equal-status, consenting adults and the relationship is one of the monogamous, covenant and lasting kind. The assumption is that the Bible’s condemnation of homosexuality is due to the lack of these elements in the ancient world.

*Casual Adult Homosexuality

Homosexuality is an appropriate lifestyle for any member of society provided it involves consenting adults. Participation in the same sex eroticism may be in any form, not simply within the covenant relationships or between equal status partners

-these categories transform into the following postures:

*1. Rejecting and Condemning. (Anti-gay.)

*2. Welcoming and Affirming. (Pro-gay.)

*3. Welcoming and Transforming. (Anti-sin, pro-people. Sex outside of marriage is outside God’s design and therefore is a moral issue; all sinners are welcomed; discipleship is about transformation and obedience to God’s mandates on morality and social ethics.)

*Church Tradition: 2000yrs + of healthy pursuit of God combined with catastrophic blunders. Our history is a mixed bag.


SCRIPTURE

*LEVITICUS 18:22; 20:13

-holiness code, long list of sexual prohibitions

-grouped with incest, bestiality, sex during menstruation, adultery, sacrificing children

-levels of punishment: cut off/excommunicated, infertility, homosexuality: death penalty

-argument 1: the grouping in itself lends to its strength and transcultural nature

-argument 2: this doesn’t speak to committed homo relationships but to male prostitution in Molech worship


*1 CORINTHIANS 6:9-11

-argument 1: Paul here is admonishing his readers to be distinct from society/culture they find themselves in

-counter cultural and transcultural

-argument 2: by this time there are committed homosexual relationships, so Paul is not directly speaking to this group



*ROMANS 1:18-27

-argument 1: again, grouped with practices outside of God’s intention and purpose

-argument 2 question associations (idol worship) and behaviour, that behaviour being condemnation of gentile infidelity and homosexual acts by heterosexual people



*1 TIMOTHY 1:9-10

-argument 1: perversion = homosexuality

-argument 2: perversion = pederasty



*GENESIS – Creation Account

-argument 1: the garden presents monogamous heterosexuality as normative; a pattern

-but not against abstinence

-physical male and female makeup

-heterosexual covenant intent

-argument 2: what about masturbation, oral sex, anal sex between heterosexuals? Does that fit in the pattern? If not, why are they not spoken against? What about homosexuality in animals?



WHICH LEADS TO MORE QUESTIONS

*Orientation vs. Behaviour?

*Why does anyone get dealt the hand they get dealt? Justice? Fairness?

*Posture: Love the sinner and hate your own sin

*Calling out sin for what it is

*Gay rights and the Christian Response

*Sex: part of our problem is how we’ve made sex the greatest of human experiences; sought after, chased after; giving up anything and everything up for it – since when has it been the pinnacle of our identity?

Quotes…

"I think Jesus was a compassionate, super-intelligent gay man who understood human problems. On the cross, he forgave the people who crucified him. Jesus wanted us to be loving and forgiving. I don't know what makes people so cruel. Try being a gay woman in the Middle East -- you're as good as dead." (Elton John)

"Our task is not to lock into an ethic that has been frozen in time, but to pursue an ultimate ethic, one reflected in the redemptive spirit of Scripture. As a community born into the twenty first century, we must not be limited to a mere enactment of the text's isolated words.  It is our sacred calling to champion its spirit." (William J. Webb)

“And, I know that I'll hear from them for this. But, throwing God out successfully with the help of the federal court system, throwing God out of the public square, out of the schools. The abortionists have got to bear some burden for this because God will not be mocked. And when we destroy 40 million little innocent babies, we make God mad. I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way -- all of them who have tried to secularize America -- I point the finger in their face and say "you helped this happen." (Jerry Falwell)

“It is very important to distinguish between a homosexual orientation and homosexual behaviour. Orientation is who a person is; behavour is what a person does. A homosexual orientatoin is the desire to have sexual intimacy with a person of the same gender. Homosexual behaviour is erotic physical interaction between persons of the same gender. The orientations is not chosen; behaviour is.” (Tony Campolo)

“We enter the world not to reject the world but to be transforming agent of the Kingdom. We can neither reject all desire and culture nor embrace it all. We cannot be set off and apart from the world because the church is in the process of becoming that very world renewed in Christ. Neither can we merely blend into the world for then all Mission and renewal is lost. This is what it means to take on the incarnational nature of Christ. It is this very incarnational nature that requires the church to be a discerning community which at times both refuses conformity with the world while at other times joining in (with what God is already at work doing Missio Dei). Loving the world as well as refusing conformity to it are “two sides of the same coin” of incarnational presence in the world. This breeds a new kind of inclusivity because we do not just blend with the world, nor do we merely reject/exclude the world, but as one of them in the world, we seek to participate in God’s transformation of the world in the Kingdom.” (David Fitch)

“There can be no presumption. Indeed we dialogue because we know “Jesus to be Lord.” This demands that we dialogue with an open mind to others believing we have stuff to learn. This is what it means to believe Jesus is Lord. Any other posture is Constantinian. This breeds “a new inclusivity,” an openness to the world. It is not an imposing of truth, not a rejection of the truth of our well-worn history in Christ either (orthodoxy). It is a diligent pursuit of the truth that extends Christ (and the historical work of Him in the church through orthodoxy) into new territory humbly inviting others to become partners with us in this.” (David Fitch)

“The church at worship continues to be the acid-test for all ministry.  In our worship, we retell and are held accountable to God’s story, the adventure story about what God is doing with us in Christ.  All ministry can be evaluated by essentially liturgical criteria: How well does the act of ministry [on task with God’s mission] enable people to be with God?” (Hawerwas/Willimon)

“Such a structural perspective speaks against any type of homosexuality today. Within a biblical framework, the issue that the Biblcal writers have with homosexuality is not really about covenant or the lack of it; it is not really about the equality or lack of equality between the two individuals. The deepest issue for the biblical authors was the breaking of sexual boundaries between male and female. Until God redesigns the physical/sexual construction of male and female, this distinction or boundary continues to influence our contemporary world.” (William J. Webb)

"In the End, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends." (MLK Jr.)

“…the gay, lesbian, bi and transsexual groups pose the defining test case of the decade for the witness of the church in the new post Christendom contexts of N America. Missional thinkers practicioners must engage and lead on this issue. There are no more hurting people groups in N. America which at the same time remain (or have the perception that they are) ostracized from the church. (The homeless for instance may be hurting but are not as ostracized from the church). Speaking to the gay issue in the church takes courage – the easiest thing to do is to avoid speaking about it publicly. This is because, if you speak, you end up being pegged as either “judgmental” or “compassionate.” Since no one wants to land on the “judgmental” side, the overwhelming temptation is to err on the compassionate side. Yet, the church needs both. The defining character of the church as it works out its moral discernments is “speaking truth in love.” This is how we grow according to Eph 4. This is how we inhabit the truth over time. Unfortunately this kind of speech is regularly missing in the churches. It’s either one or the other. (David Fitch)

“Trying to bring together two groups of people who really don't want to like each other isn't easy. Try to imagine building a bridge across a turbulent river, in the midst of a raging battle - with both sides shooting at you... Such radical reconciliation efforts come only at a cost, but so does the Gospel itself.” (Greg Paul)

The last video doesn't allow embedding, but here is the link.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RWn2rxKH3E

This past month has been a stretch for many of us. Entertaining doubt and hard questions, holding historic faith and present day culture in tension, giving the floor to a full blown atheist for 45 minutes…it’s been a lot to manage.

But where else could, or should conversations like this happen? If the church can’t engage people or questions of this nature then what’s the point? God certainly isn’t afraid of this subject matter, so why should we be? If Truth is Truth it can survive any scrutiny or storm. And if anything, our concern should be as God’s, who is jealous (read: wounded) over a creation that has distanced themselves from him. The God we serve isn’t a spoiled brat who forces allegiance, instead, scripture reveals an image of a God that has done and is doing everything possible to make all things right.

Last thought: One of the most encouraging comments following the conclusion of this series went something like this: “This has challenged me to be more rigorous in my faith. Not only to sort out what it is I believe, but to truly live it out!”

Mission accomplished.

Here are some the thoughts and ideas that helped influence our conversation this month:

“Spiritual Formation is the great reversal: From being the subject who controls all other things to being a person who is shaped by the presence, purpose and power of God in all things.” (Ross Mulholland)

“Many people are rejecting our gospel today not because they perceive it to be false, but because they perceive it to be trivial. People are looking for an integrated world-view which makes sense of all of their experience.” (John Stott)

“The pain which Paul felt in Athens was due to neither to bad temper, not to pity for the Athenians ignorance, nor even to fear for their eternal salvation. It was due rather to his abhorrence of idolatry, which aroused within him deep stirrings of jealousy for the Name of God, as he saw human beings so depraved as to be giving to idols the honour and glory which were due to the one, living, true God alone. His whole soul was revolted at the sight of a city given over to idolatry.” (John Stott)

“However we may understand the details, there can be no doubt, in the biblical picture of human life, that we were meant to be inhabited by God and to live by a power beyond ourselves. Human problems cannot be solved by human means. Human life can never flourish unless it pulses with the immeasurable greatness of his power for us who believe. But only constant students of Jesus will be given adequate power to fulfill their calling to be God’s person for their time and their place in this world. They are the only ones who develop the character that makes it safe to have such power.” (Dallas Willard)

“This isn’t a matter of having all the answers or taking control of the world. Indeed, it’s just the opposite, when I am weak, then I am strong. We must pray that God will raise up a new generation of strong weaklings; of wise fools; of wounded healers; so that the healing love of Christ may flow out into the world, to confront violence and injustice with the rebuke of the cross, and to comfort the injured and wronged with the consolation of the cross. (Henri Nouwen)

“The essential difference between orthodox Christianity and the various heretical systems is that orthodoxy is rooted in paradox. Heretics, as Irenaeus saw, reject paradox in favour of a false clarity and precision. But true faith can only grown and mature if it includes the elements of paradox and creative doubt. Hence the insistence of orthodoxy that God cannot be known by the mind, but is known in the obscurity of faith, in the way of ignorance, in the darkness. Such doubt is not he enemy of faith but an essential element within it. For faith in God does not bring the false peace of answered questions and resolved paradoxes. Rather, it can be seen as a process of ‘unceasing interrogation.’…The spirit enters into our lives and puts disturbing questions. Without such creative doubt, religion becomes hard and cruel, degenerating into the spurious security which breeds intolerance and persecution. Without doubt, there is loss of inner reality and of inspirational power to religious language. The whole of spiritual life must suffer form, and be seriously harmed by, the repression of doubt.”
– Kenneth Leech

“We live in a beautiful, fascinating, complex world and we’re all trying to make sense of it the best we can. There are 6.7 billion of us living on this planet belonging to hundreds of different belief systems. Most of us want to live peacefully, yet we also want to think that are own personal beliefs are the right ones. And if we are right, whatever we believe, that means millions or possibly billions people must be wrong. As a world full of individuals, we are never going to think the same way. What we can do is accept that we hold many different beliefs and focus instead on what unites us as human beings because we are truly similar in so many ways. We all want to feel loved, and to give love freely. We all want to love long, enjoyable lives, free from fear and pain. We’re all muddling through life the best way we know how. What’s important are not the beliefs we hold, but that we are free to hold them and that we always express them peacefully.”
- Ariane Sherine

“Whether your faith is that there is a God or that there is not a God, if you don’t have any doubts you are either kidding yourself or asleep. Doubts are the ants in the pants of faith. They keep it awake and moving.”
-Frederick Buechner

“The only appropriate attitude for man to have about the ‘big questions’ is not the arrogant certitude that is the hallmark of religion, but doubt. Doubt is humble. And that’s what man needs to be, considering human history is just a litany of getting shit dead wrong!”
- Bill Maher Religulous